Car Club Idea for St Margarets
Thought I’d suggest an idea which will hopefully help the parking issue around St Margarets. www.streetcar.co.uk is a self-service pay-as-you-go car hire company, where cars are available for rent by the hour, day, week or month in your local area 24/7. They have dedicated parking spots, and I’m aware of cars in East Twickenham, Richmond and Twickenham.
It would be great if we could get a few around St Margarets and those that don’t need their cars as often can get rid of them. We certainly use it and sold our 2nd car.
Unfortunately streetcar makes arrangement with companies or individuals to place these cars on their property with public access. In the St Margarets area there are probably very limited much opportunities, so the council will probably have to agree dedicated parking spots on the street.
Anyone else think that this will work?
— from Dipesh Bhoola
Some info from Streetcar
Environment
Every Streetcar takes an average of 20 privately owned cars off the roads of the UK, because members often sell (or don’t replace) a car when they join. This means Streetcar has already taken over 12,000 cars off the streets.
What’s more, Streetcar has found that members choose to drive a car 68% less after joining Streetcar than before, because they use other means of transport more. This means that over the next 2 years Streetcar will prevent the emission of over 2,000,000kg of CO2.
Streetcar has been twice as successful as the London Congestion Charge at cutting car usage. Streetcar has caused a drop of 68% in miles driven among its members, as opposed to 33% for the Congestion Charging scheme. Source : Streetcar’s own customer data. TfL Congestion Charge Review.
Car ownership costs
The average cost per annum of owning a car which is used for 2 representative trips per week is £2,749 (AA figures), whereas it is only £707 if using Streetcar for exactly the same trips. Source : The AA, Streetcar’s own figures.
Comments
I think this is a great idea and it has been mentioned several times on previous discussions about the CPZ and would have been a positive rather than negative way to reduce the need for a CPZ. Ben Khosa should have details of the council's policy to try to promote their use.
Trevor Whittall on 2008-04-05 08:12:33 +0000I do not wish to appear negative but..... A car club is a brilliant way to enable residents like Dipesh and other Richmond/ St Margarets residents to dispose of the cars that are only used occationally. It will have a positive effect by freeing up on street parking spaces in the area and save the cost of parking permits for residents in CPZ areas. In my opinion the uptake of car club membership, even in significant numbers, will have no bearing on the need for CPZ`s. CPZ`s have been installed at the request of residents in areas where commuter parking was and remains an ongoing problem. Most of the commuter cars are not registered in the Richmond/ St Margarets area and drivers park in this area because they either work in Richmond/St Margarets or make use of the rail and undergroud availability to access the city and other parts of London. St Margarets is situated at the London end of the M3 corridor and while there is some free parking in St Margarets commuters will keep on coming,no matter how many cars local residents have disposed off in favour of car club vehicles.
Trevor Whittal has mentioned that Cllr. Ben Khosa might be able to spell out for residents what the councils policy is regarding promoting the use of car clubs. It would also be helpful if more residents expressed their views on this subject.
Gerhard Schellberg on 2008-04-06 16:28:19 +0000Gerhard is right that commuter parking is a pressure which leads to demand for a CPZ, but there are others. Would it not, for example, be a positive move if there were car club reserved parking spaces associated with the new housing on the Richmond Lock site, particularly near the affordable housing.
Trevor Whittall on 2008-04-07 16:00:14 +0000This is an excellent idea, there are already at least two different car clubs operating in the area. There's also another company, zipcar.com, which does not yet operate here, but was more reasonably priced when I last checked.
See www.londoncarclubs.net/ to find your nearest car club location.
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Despite many many posts from very few people in the "pro-CPZ" camp I have so far failed to see anyone make a convincing case for how a blanket CPZ will solve residents parking problems out-of-hours. Commuter parking is simply NOT the main problem in the area. Just drive round Moormead in the evening or on a Sunday morning, - when it would never be in operation. All it will achieve is an unfair increase in costs and bureacracy for residents without the luxury of off-street parking, and a smug feeling for those who do.
Ed
Ed on 2008-04-07 18:40:03 +0000We got rid of our car a few years ago after being stuck in one traffic jam too many. I feared that sooner or later I'd "crack" and buy another car, but have so far resisted a return to the hassle of car ownership. Regretfully, in some social situations I find myself excluded from scintillating conversation topics like parking, fuel prices, congestion charges, speed cameras, etc; but I have come to terms with that.
We hire a car when we need to and the dilemma until a couple of years ago was that it was prohibitively expensive to hire a car for one brief journey. Streetcar has solved that and we have been extremely pleased with it ever since.
Our two young children are relatively unused to car journeys, but don't seem to complain; they enjoy walking, chatting to people on buses and are healthy and not in the slightest overweight.
Graham Hancock on 2008-04-08 07:27:35 +0000Graham I do not understand your logic; If you hire a streetcar you will still encounter traffic jams, pay congestion charge, encounter speed cameras, with regard to fuel price it reflects in the hire charge and if you live in a cpz area you have to buy a visitors parking permit to park near your home during the controlled hours. You should not exclude your self from the scintillating conversations of these topics, you are affected like any other car user!
Dont get me wrong, I applaude your decision not to own a car and to use hire cars long before streetcar came to your area. I think that you should be given some financial recognition to help you not to "crack" as you put it. This would encourage more residents to follow your example.
Cllr Ben Khosa has contributed to this site on the 19th Dec. 06 under "Cllr Morgans comments on CPZ" saying he has attended some seminars and visited some boroughs to see houw car clubs work there. His conclusion was that there is much to recommend the use of car clubs. Residents need more information than that!
All car clubs are asking for residents to offer private drive ways, allocated parking spaces or private garages to park the club cars in return for some benefits.
Is planning consent required to lease these locations to a comercial enterprise?
Has the council earmarked any public highway/ land to park car club vehicles?
Trevor suggests car club bays to be located near the affordable housing on the new private Richmond Lock housing estate.
I will sound like a nimby as I live in the immediate area and can only say that parking is already a problem (has been for many Years).
Realisticly, the best place for a dedicated car club bay would be in St Margarets Drive between Kilmorey Road and St Peters Road where the road is 10m + wide and it is not parked upon solidly at all times and less than 5mins away from all parts of the new estate, affordable and market housing. At least at this moment while the private estate is still in part under construction.
Gerhard Schellberg on 2008-04-09 01:52:52 +0000I would suggest the car club spaces be in the new Richmond Lock development and not taking up space on the road, in te first instance. That way, at least, some of the new residents may decide not to buy a car.
Trevor on 2008-04-09 17:00:04 +0000My note was emailed to the council, see response below:
Dear Ben and Dipesh
Thank you for your e-mail.
It is understood (source online), that there are about a dozen car club bays in the borough on private land, which are operated by a number of different companies. However, there are no bays currently on-street.
My colleagues, Development Control Transport have recently requested contributions from developers in order to place several car club bays on street, including within the St Margarets CPZ on Napoleon Road. Further requests for funding from Transport for London and through the planning process for the foreseeable future will be made to provide these bays.
Please see Richmond's Car Club Strategy below.
www.richmond.gov.uk/london_borough_of_richmond_upon_thames_cc_strategy.pdf
A report is scheduled to be presented to the Council's Overview and Scrutiny Committee later this month on a proposal to adopt a multiple provider model not just streetcar.
Regards
Mick Potter
Principal Engineer
Transport Planning
Dipesh Bhoola on 2008-04-09 23:25:14 +0000Dipesh, thanks for sharing Mick Potters reply with us. In particular the link to the councils car club strategy is helpful to me as I could not find anything relating to car clubs on the council web site.
Section 5 contains some items that support my view about where to locate car club bays that might serve the Richmond Lock Development and surrounding area.
The Richmond Lock Development got planning consent in Feb. 2003. Despite objections against over devlopment and underprovision of on-site parking consent was given because the proposal was in line with national and local strategy with regard to land use and parking provision. Car club bays where not included and a condition was attached to the consent that garages and hard standings approved may only used for parking of cars owned by the estate`s residents and their visitors.
The affordable flats have 1 parking space per flat irrespective of the number of bedrooms. This is 1/3rd below the recommended standard, 1 ½ space per dwelling.
16 of the affordable flats have now been occupied (in the 4 storey block) for the last 2 Weeks and there are already 19 cars in the car park designed for 24 cars, 1 space per flat?
The 3 storey block, housing the 8 shared ownership flats, is ready for occupation but is still empty and will produce at least 8 more cars, already producing an overflow to compete for parking spaces with residents on the surrounding public roads.
The landlord of the affordable dwellings, Richmond Church Housing Trust, has send a document in support of planning application stating that only 33% of their tenants own a car!
Car club bay/ bay`s on the 10m+ wide section of St Margarets Drive would not inconvenience any residents and would be in easy walking distance not only from the private Richmond Lock Estate but can also serve the area to the south (A316) and west (river Crane).
Mick Potter mentions a report that might lead to multiple providers. Will that not increase the distance residents will have to travel? City car members can presently only use the club car at richmond bridge and if it is hired can not use any cars near by this side of the river.
Gerhard Schellberg on 2008-04-11 03:05:37 +0000I would certainly be interested in joining a car sharing scheme, I got rid of my car in September; as, amongst other things, I simpy hadn't used it enough in the year since moving to St Margarets. I can honestly say I haven't missed it and have hired a car just once since, however if I could use a car for an hour or so then I would be more inclined to do so, particularly when the trains arent running. I look forward to any updates.
Eleanor
eleanor on 2008-04-11 12:04:50 +0000It should probably be suggested to landlords and developers at Richmond Lock that they contact car club schemes to have cars on site. It would certainly reduce demands on parking spaces.
Dipesh Bhoola on 2008-04-18 13:11:43 +0000Dipesh, have another read of my post of the 11th of April. The Richmond Lock Development`s parking provisions are inadequate as it is and allocated with regard to the market houses and flats. (2 spaces per dwelling)
The social/ affordable housing has only one space per dwelling irrespective of No of bedrooms and looking at the `here and now` it is already obvious that this is not enough.
Any spaces handed over to a car club will force an equal No of cars onto the public highway to compete with existing residents for parking space.
This is not fair on the new residents of the `private estate` or the existing residents living in the area surrounding the estate.
Gerhard Schellberg on 2008-04-18 23:57:53 +0000The whole point of having car club spaces is that people nearby will tend to join the club and not own a car at all. These spaces will NOT therefore tend to "force an equal No of cars onto the public highway", quite the contrary, they will substantially reduce the problem.
Just 3 households with a similar attitude to Dipesh, Eleanor and Graham who are happy to use the club will reduce the number of residents cars by 4 or 5, a net improvement of 2 or 3 spaces allowing for a 2-car club parking bay.
Note also that typically all car club spaces in an area are available to all members, there is no exclusivity based on the precise location.
Car club space provision should be a CONDITION of planning, not just a suggestion!
Ed
Ed on 2008-04-20 10:53:35 +0000Car clubs are not charities and will only install a car when ennough people have singnd up in a particular area. A parking space provided by way of a PLANNING CONDITION on a new development would not result automaticly in the installation of a CLUB CAR.
A recent planning application for a development only 2 mins. walk from the RICHMOND LOCK DEVELOPMENT, proposing 27 flats with provision of only 20 parking spaces (including disabled spaces) is at present being considered by Richmond Council Application Ref: 08/0307/FUL.
On page 2 of the application under section 5. Pre-application Advice it states that advice had been sought and received prior to application regarding Policy, Transport and Design.
Despite a considerable short fall of parking space provided on site there is no car club space included in the application.
In Mick Potters letter posted by Dipesh on the 9th of April it tells us that Development Control Transport is requesting Contributions from Developers to fund the cost of putting Car Club Bays on the Public Streets.
I would urge the Council to place these Bays in the first instance on streets that have at present no identified shortage of on street parking rather than on a street where parking is already a problem.
Gerhard Schellberg on 2008-04-25 13:51:55 +0000Add a comment